Today’s guest is Richard Adamson, he’s the founder of Young Henrys Brewing and the new chairman of the Independent Brewers Association.

This episode is a really important one for brewers, from both a commercial and production standpoint.

We discuss the growth of Young Henrys over time, the core changes to the industry that have happened over the last 10 years, and the regulatory challenges and updates that the IBA is focused on lobbying.

Transcript

The guys today, we’ve got Richard Adamson from young Henrys. Um, Richard has been in the industry for quite a while now. I think young Henry’s is around about 10 years, uh, has been going for rent about 10 years, which is, which is awesome. So, um, Richard really grabbed. Ah, pleasure. Pleasure. So, um, initially I’d, I’d, I’d love to understand kind of where you came from and how you got into the industry.

We’ve had a lot of, you know, we speak to, um, a lot of different brewers and, and kind of, uh, it’s been interesting. You’ve had. One, one half of them that have come from the, um, the kind of, almost like a chemical engineering and science path, and then sort of had the other half that have come from more of a, more of a business path.

So, so what was your path into, into the. Uh, well, out of, out of uni, I was because I was playing in a rock band when I started studying. And I didn’t really think that I made it to focus on any sort of career. Cause I was going to music was going to be what I was doing. So I did, I studied politics and psychology, which probably only qualified me to be an I committed bastard, uh, and then got into it.

Um, Because I could do it. And there was a demand for it at the time, um, and ended up, uh, doing that for about nine years or so. And, um, went through the whole.com boom and bust, and was, uh, a.com auctioneer there for awhile. And, um, at the end of that, I kind of wanted to do something real and tangible and something that didn’t have any compatibility issues.

And as it turns out B fits in all size classes and I was a homebrewer from way back. Uh, Scott, Logan who’s my brother-in-law, um, has been industry for a long time as well, convinced me to sign up to Ballarat university and, and, um, do the postgraduate course there and then started Barron’s brewing, um, with a few other people, um, in 2005 and did that for several years.

And then after a while, I wasn’t really happy with the direction I was going in and wanted to do something different. So, um, Left that, and then started working on young end reason. I think I left in 2010 and then the first beer for young Henry’s came out at 2012. Oh, um, what was that locked from my, um, I guess from, from living a different business to going in and starting your own, obviously there’s a hell of a lot of setup and all the rest of it.

Involved in that. Can you remember the, um, some of the challenges that you have when you, uh, when you’re actually getting started and building, obviously it was a different time and it’s probably different challenges. Um, it’s obviously the market’s, you know, there’s, there’s a lot of players in the market these days.

So someone starting a new brew very different to, to 10 years ago. Ah, look, I think most of the challenges are the same. I think one that. That the regulatory side is probably a little better. Understood. Um, depending on where you are though, um, your counsel may. Kind of know what a brewery is and looks like and what that entails.

Um, or I might not, if it’s, um, you feel, if you knew the area and we’ll give you a starting at brewery where there’s a whole bunch of established breweries, this and pros and cons, obviously. Um, you can build a community around you and maybe the council knows what you’re doing, but, um, you’re not unique. Um, so yeah, we were, we were new in the inner west.

Um, you know, west council didn’t really know how to deal with us. Um, so the regular challenges were really difficult. Um, can I get getting advice I get on, on equipment was all okay. But sort of all those services and stuff around it was probably. A little hotter and, um, in, uh, till they were city water and all those types of things, but I think that sort of challenges a fairly.

Fairly common still, but the regulatory issues are probably still the hardest to get out of. Yeah. Okay. And the, um, and the brewery when you started it, did you, did you go down the, the regular path of, of kind of doing a, um, I could have a taproom or what did you, what did you go wholesale from day one or how did.

It was kind of forced upon us. So we, um, initially wanted to do a, quite a high end sort of, well, not a high end restaurant, but like two barbecued meats and have, have a restaurant and bar first and foremost, and the brewery servicing that. And then we just couldn’t get approval. And in, um, in Sydney to do that kind of around arrangement.

So we tried to do it in Surrey Hills. That didn’t work. It took a, uh, warehouse. Just in the edge of Newtown there, I’m thinking we could probably do the same, but, um, any attempt we did had to get a restaurant there. It was not back from council. So we had to go down the wholesale path. Um, and I, you know, looked back on that and it was probably a good thing in hindsight that we, we had to go down that path.

Um, it, it changed the business quite significantly. Um, Not to say you can’t have a restaurant in and do the whole, the wholesale stuff as well, but it really forced us to. Get into that sort of the business early. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, it’s, it tends to be quite a, quite a hard part of the business, especially if you’re already up and going and running a hospitality venue.

Um, as, you know, how much time and effort it takes to run a hospitality venue, no matter how many people you’ve got involved and then kind of doing wholesale on top of that would be a challenge. So doing it the other way around, um, is actually an interesting way to look at it. Um, so from there obviously, uh, You you’ve gone and you started wholesale.

And then, um, what was the evolution of the brewery from the looking at what the hell we’re doing? I think it was the, um, I think we hadn’t really thought much beyond making the beat to start with, so we didn’t really have much in an idea and selling it. I remember, um, you know, we were doing it, we were doing everything so we weren’t going out and selling it once we’ve finished the day in the brewery, men involved probably having beers.

At the Basel and possibly wanted to get it into and poking your way in. Um, but very quickly in the first year we kind of, we kind of maxed out what we could do. We would double the capacity of the brewery. Um, in 2013, Dan Hampton came on board, his, um, sales director now. Um, Dan’s first job was really to say no to any new customers.

And, um, he, he ran the tasting bar on the weekends for us, cause it was, you know, wasn’t really out there selling that much until we could grow the capacity again. Um, how, how was that? Uh, uh, sorry. Ha how hard was that for, for a sales manager to, to actually actually have to sign out a customer’s. It was very high wasn’t around, but I think that he obviously didn’t, they said, he said not, not yet.

Um, but we’ll get to you as soon. Um, I just think we’re very fortunate position then that there wasn’t much competition. So when people ringing, you’re asking for the B, they were willing to widen that barrier giving on us as well, in terms of us working our way through allergies, tick issues and supply, um, Sort of the cycle in terms of making sure we had an out stock and all those sort of things.

So know early days it was caught off and me feeling the Kagan on a Friday afternoon and Oscar loading it into the Ute and drop it off at the customers. And quite often there was people at the bar way. At the B2B taps. So, um, it was, uh, it was pretty, you know, pretty thin on the ground and just in time at those stages.

So it’s a true, it’s that true? True kind of grinding startup story where you, where you kind of working it out as you, as you, as you go along. Absolutely. I’ve ever had it been, had a, a forklift at that stage, we were borrowing the neighbor’s f
orklift until. Got to time. It was just too embarrassing to ask because we were using it more, more than they were.

Can we better buy one of those? So, you know, all those little things like having, uh, having someone doing deliveries, I all sort of had a sort of where it was. We grew up. Yeah. Cool. Cool. The, um, yeah, it’s interesting. You w w as, as I said, we’ve spoken to, you know, we’ve spoken to a bunch of different breweries and kind of some, most of them have started more recently.

So it’s been probably more of a, more of a structured approach to kind of, you know, getting the capital and then deploying the capital based on a plan and all that type of thing. And I think, you know, some of the, some of the best stories that, that all here kind of died to die of the ones where you want, you have to work it out as you go.

I guess, you know, you, you kicking that brewery off say 10 years ago, or so it’s just what has to happen. You just have to, you, you know, there’s, there’s probably not so many people paving the way. Um, you know, you guys would have been one of the first to really Skyla, uh, Skyla, independent craft brewery rot.

Yeah, I think, well, I think it was our PSO ahead of us were sternum ward and we certainly, um, took a lot of inspiration from them and. A little bit of advice here and there along the way as well. Um, but yeah, I think it was there wasn’t much happening in Sydney about time that’s for sure. So most, um, once there was some other breweries around to, we could call it.

We’ll help each other and borrow equipment and ingredients stuff short. Um, but yeah, when you’re the one, you’re the first one there, and there’s not much else around you. It’s kind of tricky. Yeah. One of the things I’ve, um, I’ve found from, you know, we’ve only, we’ve been dealing with, uh, breweries for, you know, I say 12, probably 12, 18 months.

One of the big things I’ve noticed is the community there. Um, the community is a very, very close community and everyone talks a lot. So the idea of you kind of sharing equipment and all that type of thing, it’s clear that that that was born from, um, you know, the community that he’s there now is born from necessity.

And it seems like everyone, everyone tends to know everyone else. And you know, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of, uh, everyone, everyone chats and talks throughout the journey. I think that’s really. And it is one of the most collaborative industries. I think people from the outside of brewing say for the first time ago, I really that’s kind of, that’s really nice.

That’s kind of crazy. Like we know you would get kind of help be competitors out there. The only downside, I guess, is everyone knows each other’s business. There’s no secrets in this. Yeah, I kind of, um, I kind of know, I noticed that, um, early on as well, there’s, um, there’s, there’s a lot of talk, but it looked to be honest, 99% of it is really positive talk and everyone talks glowingly about everyone else, which is kind of rare when people are talking about their competitors.

It’s true. And that’s something we’ve definitely, um, kept, is not a valued thoughts since we have grown as a business and taking on more people is just, um, you know, I talk about the competition unless you’ve got something nice to say. Um, otherwise. Just stick to stupid talking about us. Yeah. I think the pay, I think people find out pretty quickly if you’ve got negative things to say.

So that’s why it’s good to remind on the positive side. Um, the, uh, what was the first type of beer that kind of took off for you? Uh, well, we had, when we first started, it was natural or in real out where the tube is that we were sewing the most of, but within that first year, um, it was new town to a hundred and 50th anniversary.

The Siskey centenary and, um, city of Sydney just suggested that it might be a nice idea if we might’ve bee. For the occasion. So we made the new Towner and launched it at the, um, the local pub, which was the courthouse, was the pump that we always kind of wanted to be in. That was the that’s the locals, pub town and Massey sort of big addon and a real beer drinkers pub as well.

So to get in there, it was great. And I think on the opening we launched on the first day, not in by Sunday, we’d sold something like 1700. Um, and they wanted to keep it on. And I think that scared me a lot because at that point it would have been like half of our production would have been to that one B with that one part going on those numbers.

So that was, that was the bit that really took off for us. We didn’t have a Palau and in those sort of portfolio before that, ADA, so it kind of slotted in nicely with what we were doing. Um, and that’s, that’s the sort of flagship. Yeah. Awesome. And, um, and I guess building off of that, um, the, the, the coal pubs that were supporting you and that you had, um, that you had, you know, lines in and all that type of thing, obviously, you know, you probably, you obviously know this from the RBI perspective as well, when you’re going in and you need a small brewery and you’re going, and you’re trying to put lawns in and that type of thing, and you’ve got, you have to compete against the big gauze.

How do you, how do you operate in a Y way you can afford to number one, deliver the beer at a price that is, that is competitive or act or competitive. Um, as far as the retail is concerned, I, they can sell it at a high price, that type of thing. And, um, and, and, and, and what are the, what are the challenges that, you know, if you’re a new brewery and you’re giving advice to a new brewer who is entering the market, um, what can they do to make sure that they can remain competitive?

It is really about funny your audience, I think, and, and speaking to what people want to see. Um, so that was, that was obvious in that case that it was driven by customer demand, that they, they wanted it. Um, pricing is, yeah, pricing is tricky. So you’ve really got to, um, you know, do your numbers and know what you, you see it, um, you know, Depending on your business model, looking at the IBB is really kind of pretty filled as well.

And, you know, um, if you can, if you can shave off a few dollars with the IB value, sometimes it’s worth doing and targeting something. That’s um, the sort of the repeat drinking sessionability is important too. If you’re looking for, um, for draft sales, particularly if you’re not going down that specialist route, um, But I think we’ve always sold on kind of relationships really.

And that’s, um, That’s what it’s about. If we can, if we can bring something to your business as a public and more than just the tap point, that’s what we’re aiming to do. Yeah, sure. Yeah, there has to be, there has to be that differentiator it’s too. It’s obviously too difficult to, to compete on a, on a pure price and, and kind of infrastructure standpoint against, against the, my days.

And, um, that kind of brings me to the next point. Um, and especially with your recent appointment as. Chairman of the IBA. I’d love to understand, you know, the lobby has done a lot of good work recently to, um, to lobby the government, to be able to get, um, to be able to get, um, some of the, um, excise tax, um, you know, the, the, the threshold, um, increased and, and all the rest of it.

So, um, can you run me through. Kind of exactly how you say that and, and, and, and what you guys are lobbying for in the future. Um, especially around, uh, especially around taxation of the, of, of the beverage industry, but also, um, anything else that you guys are, uh, focused on lobbying on for the, for the broader community?

Yeah. Lopez i
s a bunch of things. So, um, I think that it’s important to recognize that, that, um, lifting of the threshold to have power to move on. A combination of many years work. And I think it started off probably 25 years ago, um, with a, a small bunch of bros at the time, would it have been the Lord Nelson and Jeff Shara?

Shara’s saying that we should have the same breaks as wine. And it’s really, um, as the industry has grown and we’ve been able to get a voice, um, that is representative of all. You know, original kind of economic, um, impact in terms of dollars spent and, and jobs that we, um, managed to, to do the convincing just, um, just recently, um, there has been some talk and if you send the BA and the IHI was sort of aiming to get a 50% rebate on draft beer, um, we were broadly supported, but not, um, actively.

Um, advocating for that. And given that most of our members in the RBA are in the smaller sort of size, I think they’re all, most of them are tier one in terms of our tiers in terms of sales, so that they’re not making a whole bunch of B it’s unlikely to impact them in terms of giving them any sort of benefit.

And it would just mean, I think that, uh, the gap between. A small, very good cell vacay guy and what the big guys could sell. They can get, we probably bought him. Um, so it wouldn’t really be too out L I’m in the member’s benefit as far as I can see. Um, so, um, Love the future lobbying. This is kind of two things is furthering the business side and our industry, and I guess there’s protecting as well.

So we’re getting a lot of, um, pressure from any alcohol lobbying groups to further regulatory, regulatory pressures on what we’re trying to do. Um, we’ve just had the privacy warning coming in for labeling, um, nutrition’s coming up so that there’s, um, a little bit to put nutrition panels, but look, the, the, any lobbying people won’t really stop until we’ve got like something like a floor, floor price for alcohol or, um, towards plain packaging.

So we’ve really got to, um, fight for. Um, a right to exist on that front as well. Can I, can I quickly, can I quickly talk to you about that and dig a bit further into that? I’d be really interested, um, to, to understand, um, what, what, what the core motivation is for groups like that? Obviously there’s a, you know, there could be a number of number of motivations, but, um, Uh, I, I find that I find that, um, if you, if we’re talking about nutrition and labeling and that type of thing, that’s one thing.

But if we’re talking about plain packaging for alcohol, I think that that is, um, uh, I personally think that that’s crazy talk, but, um, what’s your, what’s your feeling across, across that? Oh, what am I feeling that Brooks like fair and, and others, uh, the new temperate societies. So they, they, they went like they just pure any alcohol, so they just see, they don’t see any benefits to alcohol within society.

They just say societal harm. So that’s kind of what we’re up against. We’re up against a group that is going to be, you know, reasonable, reasonable. So, um, that’s the thought we’ve got in front of us. And there are, and, and, and those type of groups that obviously it seems like they’re quite well-funded and well-organized, and they’re very used to doing things like this.

Is that pretty accurate? Well, we’re funded. We have funded fair. Um, so fair got its money, um, for. Um, to, you know, the excise that we pay and they’ve got, um, they’ve got a large base that they invested that keeps on playing them all the time. So they’ve got very deep pockets and yeah, they are very well funded.

And, um, you know, the things that I, that sort of annoyed me about that group is it’s obvious to me that they’ve been going and crawling through. Particular breweries, social media posts and, um, putting historical complaints into ABEQ about advertising. Um, and also they, in terms of their research too, they never really published the role data or the methodology as you.

And they just sort of publish a headline. Um, I published, yeah, they have their findings, their findings they’re relevant to their talking points. Right. That’s it. And we don’t, we don’t actually get to interrogate the data at all. So. I find that very frustrating and that, but, you know, w Gemma is probably get the, the press release and it’s easy to put a story together without having to ask for the data and really interrogate it themselves.

You know, look, it’s, it’s supremely dishonest when you do, when, when groups do things like that. And we see that, you know, I say that across, you know, in every walk of life you’ve got. You’ve got journalists that I only want to do half the job. Now. They want to be able to produce articles quickly and produce articles that might be a little bit controversial and might be a little bit click bitey.

And that’s really what they’re after the journalist and you know, these kinds of groups. Obviously know how to work with journalists because that’s their whole, their whole thing is naming and shaming type of thing. Um, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a real problem. It’s a real problem across culture in general, I think.

And, um, you know, we say it, we say it in, not in every industry, but in every walk of life. It’s a real concern. What, what kind of damage I can I can do. And, um, yeah, when people look historically back at the things that you’ve said prior to rules being changed, and prior to you making updates, and prior to you changing the way that you operate, it’s a, it’s a real concern.

Also as you get bigger too, you grow, you grow as a business. And you know, if you have a much more scrutiny over, you know, your marketing side and you, you know, hopefully you can employ people that are talented in this area and have a, you know, have a reasonable head on them as well, to understand the regular environment they’re in.

So I think it is unfair that go back on all. Social media postings, a company that it doesn’t, it’s not reflective of where they are may up either. Hey, that’s the negative side? I don’t think on the positive side, we do have a voice now. That’s, um, that’s what we’re being heard, but recognize that we play an important part of the economy as well.

So. Know, I think where we need assistance from those is everyone’s talking about skill shortage at the moment. So we need to really work on training and getting more training across the, um, across all the states. Um, with Knights of good headway with Atlas still got a long way to go. Um, but we’re getting.

Um, I think the whole container deposit schemes and having a nationalized system there in terms of our registered those and maintain, that would be a benefit. And that’s something we’ve been been pushing for, um, really kind of red hot on, on truth in, in labeling. Um, I think there’s still a lot of confusion out there in the marketplace around.

Who owns what, and what’s independent and what’s not. Um, and in the sales going somewhere that wants that with, so what, um, some more awareness to do around the DCU and what that means. Um, but I think it should be very transparent and. Everyone’s what brewery and that should be, that should be really at the point of purchase.

Yeah, for sure. I think, uh, I think if everyone knew where, where their, where their dollars were going or where the, where the margin from, from the beer that they purchased was going, I think a lot more paper would be supporting your members and purchasing beer from your members. Um, the. The point. We do know that’s true.

We know that from the,
um, the roadmap where we’re putting together with just ask members to go and, um, give final feedback on that 10 year roadmap. But part of that, we did a big, um, stakeholder engagement piece and, um, it’s mostly bullied to the punters and the pump is Wong to support independent properties.

It’s important to them. So they’ll make that back, goes into their budgeting. I couldn’t agree more. Couldn’t agree. More the, um, the education aspect that you were talking about before, obviously the, the, um, you know, there’s nationally recognized education, but obviously the state’s run a lot of that and especially in the type area, um, no doubt that covers off a lot of the, a lot of the training that is required to, to train people up in the, in the beer vertical.

Can you run me through the top of, um, the top of changes? Um, you as a, you know, you as an organization being the IBA, but also you as a independent brewer yourself, um, what are the, what are the type of changes that you would, you would make to that formalized education? Um, and how, how do you get it to a point where it’s suitable 100% suitable and fit for purpose for the industry?

It’s two things. So I think it’s been, it’s made, we need more entrance to the industry and that’s true. The city gets three, I believe. We’ve got, we’ve got that available in not all, not all sites across the country and not all the regions. So it’s available in, uh, in city at Ultimo and up in Brisbane. Um, We don’t that we’re struggling at the south Australia moment.

We knew that we needed a new teacher. The teacher that was been there for a while has left. So we, we needed someone to pick up the mantle and start stating there Victoria don’t office. Did he get three to the general public it’s any been, yeah. Direct to, um, to Asahi at this point. So pushing for that, there’s a lot of work we’re doing with Wilder over in, um, WIA to.

Civica fray, opera running as soon as we can. And we really need to keep on pushing it further. Like in Tazzy doesn’t have to be in camera. Doesn’t have anything yet either. Um, on the, on the other side too, there’s a certificate for publication, which, um, no one’s written course for two or four yet, and we really want to get that up and running and that’s um, that’s for the further education on, um, after certificate three.

Um, if, uh, someone is new to the industry, but it’s going to take a senior wall. So we’re looking at production, manager’s head gorillas or business owners to understand the technical aspect so of growing, but also talk about running a brewery. And some of those are the skills that are required and I’ve I’ve I made sure that there was some leadership, um, training in there.

There’s some financial training. Um, there’s some production planning skills, those types of skills that I I’m, I’m not direct. So. Specific to growing a story, but all about running a business, they’re the skills that may be lacking in the industry. And, you know, as, as prone to crime and rapidly, people might find themselves in a position where they work quite comfortable with the skillset they had in terms of being able to knock out great beer.

But if you’re all sudden, you’ve got to run a team of six plant production on a budget in terms of maintenance. You know, um, make sure that you’re keeping a ledger in terms of, you know, all the raw materials and everything that goes into to brewing. Yeah. There might be, might be finding that you’re not, um, you’re not swimming quite as well as it used to be.

Um, and a bit of skilling up there would help and it completely changes the decision-making process of do I actually want to go and do this as a, as a business because I think everyone thinks. Going into business is a lot easier than what it actually is in reality. You know, I know that from, you know, running multiple businesses over my lifetime and you know that from running multiple businesses over yours, that all these hidden costs and, you know, and the market going up and down and all the different challenges of trying to get paid as well, they all come into it.

And I think that a lot of people don’t understand those risks and challenges prior to actually opening a business. Yeah. It’s tough. You definitely need an appetite for risk and it is there’s different things. You require on, you got to, I think as you get bigger, you’d probably need to employ some in particular on the financial side, people that are more risk adverse when you stop, if you, if you don’t have an appetite for risk, that you’d look at it on paper and go, this is crazy.

I’m never going to do. Um, so especially when you’ve got like, you’ve, I mean, with, with beer, you guys have a certain number of leaders that you need to brew. Um, and then anything up to that is losses. So you have to be prepared to be able to take some of those early losses and kind of back yourself that you can brew X amount of ladies of BIA to be able to produce enough revenue to actually cover your initial costs.

Okay. Um, then even after that, it’s still not all margin. You still got, you still got your base cost, which is, which is, you know, ridiculously high and in every game and with the labor and wages of the in Australia, it’s, uh, you know, it’s hot in any business, so, yeah. Yeah. I look at, I I’ve done a, um, a couple of short courses for business startup in this area.

Um, after the first lecture I had know quite a few people come up and say, look, this is not familiar. And it’s, it’s kind of good that they realized that before they’ve taken out a line or something like that. So, um, yeah, it’s not it starting at you. Brewing business is not very everyone. Makes sure you’ve got a very clear idea of what.

What you want to achieve, what your goals are and, um, what you want out of it financially. What are you, if you, you know, is what you’re gonna put in, what you have to get out? Yeah. Is it, is it worth it? And then you’ve got, you know, we say, um, in this industry, a lot of people ask friends and family for funding and that type of thing, which happens quite often.

And, and that is a, that’s a challenge in itself. Um, just asking them and their relationship that, that can create with people that you, you, you know, and love. So it’s really good to understand the structure of your cost base and, and what you need to do to actually be profitable before you start. For sure.

Um, just quickly on the, going back to the education side of things, the, the certificate three, is that a certificate three? Is it, is it a process manufacturing course or like what’s the end qualification that they get? It sits on the. Uh, food processing. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s just, it’s just been updated and we’re going to have to do some work to get the cool soft data, but finally it will be know a certificate three in, in Walker Berlin, so, yeah.

Cool. Yeah, I think there’s, I think there’s, I think there, there needs, there should be real, um, real growth in that area. I’m very surprised that people don’t, obviously it’s pretty difficult just considering the size of the, the size of the industry. Um, students that you would, you would probably have, but there’s gotta be a way to be able to, um, blend it, to be able to do it both, um, some online and then some on the job in, in, in certain breweries that can put up their hand and say, hi, highway needs some help.

And then students can say, hi, I’m came to help. You know? Well, that’s all we’ve done with, with, um, with I, cause I teach part-time at Ultimo and that is that we, we have work placements and. That’s a really goo
d opportunity for new people to get some hands-on practical experience and make sure there’s something that I do want to do.

Um, but so many people have found jobs through that because, um, both the brewery and the applicant get a good look at each other and make sure it’s going to be a good cultural fit. Um, and, um, generally, yeah, it goes from there. So we’ve, we’ve had a high degree of success getting people in the industry by that.

Yeah, it’s good to have an extended job interview. Absolutely. That’s right. And I don’t even think, like, to be honest, I’m not asking for that much. We’re asking for people to be enthusiastic shopping time. Get stuck in really the, um, it’s interesting you say that you say that that’s not asking for much, but, uh, but, um, I think sometimes now, uh, sometimes now it’s, it’s pretty difficult.

I, I spoke to, um, I spoke to Tom from. From a mismatch last week, Tom, the head brewer at mismatch and you know, he’s, uh, he’s in his late twenties, 29, but it really enthusiastic young guy. And the difference between dealing with someone that is in their twenties and super enthusiastic is someone that goes and gets a job as a head brewer somewhere as opposed to someone who’s kind of not that keen to learn and not, not, not up and about and not enthusiastic.

The, the differences was. Yeah, I completely completely get it. Yeah. And that’s really on there. That’s talking to other, um, you know, breweries out there. Um, that’s really what we want, let’s say is, um, you know, willingness and, um, and eagerness to learn, um, is, yeah. First of all, Um, you know, it is a state lending code.

It might take you if, you know, at all from what you’ve read or what you might’ve behind, but it’s a very different playing in a, um, in a brewery, you know, commercial growing environment. Um, and yeah. Good, great. It, it’s gonna take you a little. Yeah, the, the, kind of the differences from a turning from a kind of an art that you, that you might do as a home brewer and all that type of thing, go from an art to being truly about science and, and kind of getting in there and having to scale.

Um, a lot of that is, you know, that’d be a massively steep learning curve learning how to, how to scale that, that, that beautiful B that you’re brewing. How do you scale that for, you know, national or international consumption is a, is, uh, would be an enormous learning. Yeah. And you’re moving from tinkering to, you know, doing a different recipe.

Every, every time you pray you to really honing in and then perfecting and not changing what you’re doing, but I need to consistency. And, um, look, the job is a lot of cleaning and Mike and, um, Yep. It’s pure production. Um, the, um, the industry, how have you seen, have you seen the industry change in the last 10 years?

That’s all, that’s a really broad question. There’s a lot of areas there, but I’d love to understand the, the, the kind of attitudes of the, of the people within the industry. And then probably, um, probably the, the, maybe the challenges or maybe the positives around, around actually being a commercial brewer because you know, it’s a big, it’s a big, um, it’s a big.

Yeah, I think, I think the industry is probably going from that infant terrible to, um, the difficult teenage years. And when we’re coming out to coming up to like growing up a little bit, I think now, so, um, suddenly the level of professionalism is, is much higher. Um, I think, um, technically the black unit at the B is, uh, so much better, I think as well.

So, um, the customer expectation is really high in terms of quality and, um, the industry is matching that. With the same level of discipline and quality in terms of, um, making the B. And then I think we’re just, you know, we’re attracting people to the industry that I’ve got a high degree of, um, skill in marketing and business administration as well.

So, um, yeah, I’d say with the, from where wasted. I remember you got a good beer awake and you don’t get to each other’s events, you know? And there was probably a couple of highlights there that you would, you know, you’d see everybody there. Um, so where everyone’s busy doing their own things. So that’s, that’s kind of like, you know, I, I miss the old days in some ways from, from that perspective, but whatever I’m businesses essentially.

So, um, that, that’s certainly the thing I’ve noticed. Um, We’ve gone through a few different evolutions and trends and be here. And, um, I think, uh, the, the range of bees, we’re not really aping old styles anymore, this new styles coming out. I think there’s a bright, fair of breadth of breadth, of different styles, B, which is good to say.

Um, is there anything that you guys are doing? Um, that’s kind of a little bit different to the traditional, um, uh, young Henry’s that, that. Yeah, I guess we’ve expanded into, um, you know, Jean and artsy duties as well. So, um, you know, outside of, um, if we make, and we’ve had a lot of fun with the face odds and that we’re bringing on new core range pretty soon.

And, um, we’ve got a whole bunch of different, um, limited releases lined up that way. Um, you know, getting a lot of traction leads the Gina, the mileage as well. So. Um, that was that project. We started probably in 2016 or something like that. And it’s really starting to get us. Yeah. And that’s obviously are going, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a brilliant idea to be able to produce, uh, you know, to be able to distill a, a spirit as well, because you’ve got the, you’ve got an existing customer base from a, both from a wholesale and a, probably a retail perspective.

So, um, you kind of, it’s, it’s, it’s quite, uh, quite a shop idea to do it. You’ve actually got distribution from, from, from day one. Yeah, it took, it’s taken us a while. I think, um, I can either product rights probably taken us longer than we thought to. Yeah, we won two gold medals this year, um, for the gene on, in San Francisco and one in London.

So, um, you know, we, we know the product is great and we’ve got the feedback that it is great, which is fantastic. It is a different product to sell. Spirits is not the same conversation is as busy. You are talking to different category managers and it’s a different conversation that the actual bar on the top as well.

Um, so that. It’s not the same thing. Um, but it’s, it’s, it’s good to better diversify and same time. And the, the actual production side of, of gin probably vastly different to, to be. What are the, you know, obviously you’ve had, you’ve had to learn a lot. Um, what have been the challenges of actual producing gene as opposed to producing, producing big?

Uh, look, it, it was, it was stable. I didn’t go, but there’s also some major advantages. Like, you know, it’s a show. Well, if you kind of sold it really, um, 40% ABV, um, bottle a gene. You don’t have to worry about that. Um, that having a best before date, that the clock is ticking on. Um, yes. So it’s better then holding the inventory to, you’ve got to go where you’re holding a lot of stock, a lot of value stock where you weren’t.

Okay. And there’s a whole bunch of other regulatory issues around it. Cause it’s, it’s, it’s a dangerous, good. You handling it. If you’ve got a lodge start calling a jeans it’s um, it’s, it presents much more of a risk than, than focus. It’d be. And obviously the tax treatment is, is completely different to, to, to, um, what wine, what wine was and is, and obviously what, what beer is now.

Um, they, uh, the distill is probably haven’t got the same tax. Um, I did, did. Oh, they did. Yeah. Which was great. Well, I guess, um, well I think that the rule pinch point is going to be where distillers and brewers might be clashing. I can foresee in the near future is around Celsus. If you’ve got it, you’ve got two products on the shelf that extensively taste the same, the consumer, and wants texts on different, uh, regime and the other.

Um, there’s an argument there to say. It’s not fair. Um, I think what goes in like CELTA would say is that there’s a lot more labor going into the manufacturing of, um, the brood cells as opposed to. The, you know, the, the dumping stew,

um, there’s some narrow to that argument. It’s not, it’s not, it’s not a hundred percent black and white, I would say. So that’s a good, I mean, it’s just. Yeah. Cool. And, um, lastly, um, uh, what’s next for you guys at, at, at young Henrys? Y’all you guys, uh, you know, you’ve, you kind of had your 10th anniversary recently, um, anything exciting coming up or any, any new I can really talk about?

Unfortunately, there’s a bunch of really exciting things happening that I’ve been personally involved with and the companies that I’m working on as well. Um, but nothing I can, nothing I can reveal on this. Hopefully hopefully we can reveal it first at some point. And, um, my thanks so much for your time.

Really appreciate it. That was a really good chat. Um, and, um, and yeah, uh, I, I really appreciate your time. A pleasure. Thanks for having me. Thanks again.